The first major political debate of the election campaign played out on Monday afternoon. In truth, it was half a leaders’ debate, as three party leaders and three energy spokespeople showed up to talk power at the Electrify Queenstown conference.
The Government’s plans for a $1 billion gas import terminal, the pace of the solar and battery rollout and an almost-Budget leak were canvassed across more than an hour, after speeches by the candidates.
Act Party leader and Deputy Prime Minister David Seymour, National MP and Energy Minister Simeon Brown and NZ First deputy leader and Associate Energy Minister Shane Jones represented the Government.
Speaking on behalf of the Opposition were Greens co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick and Labour’s energy spokesperson Megan Woods. Although leader Chris Hipkins gave a speech beforehand, he left it to Woods to take the debate podium. Perhaps he felt he couldn’t deign to share a debate stage with anyone other than the Prime Minister.
In addition, Opportunity Party leader Qiulae Wong, a former sustainability consultant, took the stage for her underdog party. Stuff journalist Paddy Gower moderated the debate.
On some issues, the six politicians portrayed a potentially surprising amount of unity. All but Seymour backed the use of the Ratepayer Assistance Scheme, long in the works at Local Government New Zealand, to help homeowners (including landlords) install solar and batteries.
At last year’s conference, Brown’s predecessor Simon Watts said the Government was “actively considering” the programme – though little progress seems to have been made since.
Seymour, for his part, said it wasn’t the role of government to get involved in that manner. Asked whether he would block the policy before the election, he replied: “Someone’s got to do it.”
Elsewhere, the politicians diverged, falling behind their usual party lines.
Woods, Swarbrick and Wong said they opposed the Government’s plans to build a $1b gas import terminal, funded by a levy on household electricity bills. Hipkins, in his earlier speech, went further than he had gone before in pledging Labour would scrap the plan. The scheme had also been criticised by numerous prior speakers at the conference.
Seymour and Brown backed the terminal, saying it was needed to provide access to gas in a dry year.
Jones, meanwhile, hinted that New Zealand First was uncomfortable with the policy, before ultimately acceding to it.
“The position that my two colleagues have articulated is the position of our Government, and no government works unless you confine your differences of opinion within the constitutional confines of Cabinet,” he said.
“Can you do that for the rest of this answer?” Seymour interjected, to laughter.
“You’re talking to the Matua, not the Rangatira. We canvassed a whole lot of options. Actually we’re waiting for Simeon to bring it back, and we support whatever recommendations you bring back,” Jones finished.
Similarly, on the idea of an energy strategy, long sought after across the energy sector, Seymour and Brown said it wasn’t necessary whereas Woods, Wong and Swarbrick said it was. Jones didn’t raise his hand when asked whether he supported it and said although having a sense of direction was important, there were greater priorities.
Throughout, Brown and Woods also sparred on policy – or lack thereof. Brown held up a blank sheet of paper, saying it represented the concrete policies Hipkins had discussed in his speech. Later, Woods said National had yet to announce energy policy either, arguing Brown was only citing the Government’s policies which were often driven by Act and NZ First.
Then there was the near-Budget leak. Responding to an audience question about policies to ensure there are enough electricians to cope with rising demand in solar, EV charger, battery and other electrotech installs, Jones said he had a plan.
“What is it?” Seymour called out. Cue the audience giggles.
“We’re waiting,” Woods said.
“I just need to check with David Seymour. Dear Leader did talk about it on [Newstalk] ZB, didn’t he?” Jones said, leaning over his podium to peer down the stage at Seymour on the opposite end.
“Which Dear Leader?” Woods jumped in, prompting more laughter.
“I think discretion is the better part of valour, Shane,” Seymour replied.
“Yes, the importance of directing funding away from excessive reliance on university education to more practical skills is overdue,” Jones concluded.
Gower pushed Seymour on the issue, asking whether there was a plan in the works to fund apprenticeships for electricians.
“There could be. If there was, it would probably be announced in the Budget in 10 days’ time. We’ve already had a problem with people going too early, prematurely announcing things, so we don’t want any more of that here,” he answered.
After an interjection from Woods, Brown again attacked her over her lack of policy, prompting Seymour to join in, saying: “If Megan announces a policy for the Labour Party, we’ll tell you what’s in the Budget.”
“You’re on,” Woods shot back.
Neither went on to reveal more about their respective plans, but Gower concluded by suggesting the funds from the fees-free programme (which Peters had revealed would be cancelled on Newstalk ZB) might end up being redirected towards the trades.
There was intra-coalition sparring over the role of the gentailers, with Jones threatening, “Gentailers, I will cut you in half” and Seymour saying only Act could block such a policy. Swarbrick urged Jones to get NZ First to back the Green Party members bill proposing to do just that – structurally separate the gentailers. The NZ First deputy leader demurred.
Gower also pushed Brown multiple times on whether or how National might work with Opportunity.
“What have you made of the Opportunity Party and some of the things that Qiulae’s been saying today, could you work with them? It’s pretty important for this audience,” Gower asked.
Woods jumped in again, pointing to Jones and Seymour, saying, “It’s pretty important to this audience, I think”.
“Look, I’m the campaign manager for the National Party and I’ll be focused on the issues that matter and focused on increasing the National Party vote going into the election,” Brown replied.
Later, Gower tried again.
Wong, speaking on the importance of an energy strategy, said it could be anchored with the support of a “strong, pragmatic, centrist party” like Opportunity.
“It sounds like you would like to work with Simeon,” Gower said. “Simeon, I think you like what you’ve seen today, don’t you?”
“What I like is a good party vote for National,” the campaign chair replied.
Electrify Queenstown covered the cost of flights to attend and cover the conference.
